the Little Red Reviewer

Republic of Thieves. the end! . . . or is it?

Posted on: November 25, 2013

Welcome friends!   This is the final post in our Republic of Thieves read along. I hope everyone had a good time? It was one helluva book, wasn’t it?  This week’s questions come courtesy of Allie of Tethyan Books. Head on over to her blog for the link list of everyone who is participating, and you’re welcome to leave your link in the comments here as well.

So many, and i do mean SO MANY spoilers abound, so questions and answers are after the jump. I can’t help but tease though. . . .

In Espara…

1. The Republic of Thieves:  It’s the first and final performance!  What did you think of the play?  Were you entertained, or eager to get on with the rest of the story?  Also, how do you feel about how the play fits in the novel, in terms of the story and the characters who play the parts?

2. The Other Performance:  Of course, the GB and company had another important performance to get through—the one that ensures none of them end up hanged!  What was your favorite part of this scheme?  Do you agree with their plan for dealing with Moncraine’s treachery?

In Espara…

1. The Republic of Thieves:  It’s the first and final performance!  What did you think of the play?  Were you entertained, or eager to get on with the rest of the story?  Also, how do you feel about how the play fits in the novel, in terms of the story and the characters who play the parts?

I was happy with the performance, and i found this section entertaining.  Locke is totally in his element, having to balance multiple characters and multiple plans, and the twins seem to be having a blast insulting patrons and not getting beaten up for it.  this stage performance IS what they came to Espara for in the first place, right?  and as they say, the show must go on.  If they didn’t do the play, the authorities would know right away something was up. If they act natural, no one will suspect a thing. Nice little twist at the end with dressing one of the actors up in Boulidazi’s clothes, but then the poor guy had to spend the rest of the evening next to, a, uggghh.

2. The Other Performance:  Of course, the GB and company had another important performance to get through—the one that ensures none of them end up hanged!  What was your favorite part of this scheme?  Do you agree with their plan for dealing with Moncraine’s treachery?

Before the final thing with Moncraine, I loved the bathhouse scene!  they get Moncraine to imitate Boulidazi’s voice, and Sabetha has to play the simpering wench (she doesn’t that a little too well), and everyone has to make believe they are so embarrassed at Boulidazi’s behavior.  When are the guys going to realize that Sabetha has gotten them out of nearly every mess in Espara?  Sometimes you need a woman on your crew!!  I liked Locke and Sabetha’s interaction with Ezrintaim.  Locke needs to know that he needs to be paying attention to the bigger picture.

And then Moncraine screws everyone.  It sucks, but I did find it funny that at the end of each storyline, the GB’s end up broke and without help.  ok, it’s not funny, but do I always appreciate symmetry like that.  I’ll be highly entertained if during a flashback in a future novel someone makes mention of “that asshole Moncraine!

In Karthain…

3. The Election:  It seems Lovaris was indeed the final trick, and the election is over.  Are you satisfied with how things turned out? Do you wish that the election had focused more on the political problems of Karthain, or are you satisfied with the mudslinging and pranks that went on between Locke and Sabetha?

I thought the Lovaris trick was pretty unique. The amount of money he requested for a bribe was ridiculous, and even Locke knows how hard it would be to just leave a stack of gold on the guy’s front porch. So ok, money isn’t is thing.  And Locke totally takes it in the face that Lovaris knows exactly what he’s all about.  but that’s fine, because Locke and Jean have a back-up plan.  One that offers Lovaris something far better than money, they offer him power and importance, but the reader doesn’t find that out until later. It’s a trick that’s too easy for an author to overuse, but I do like it sometimes when characters make plans but don’t tell the reader what those plans are, it’s the “he whispered his plan into their ear” scene.  I do wish that the Lovaris thing had started off earlier in the novel though.

Meh, I’m not super interested in the politics of a city that we’ll probably never visit again, I read these books for the con artistry and the pranks.

4. The War: Do you have any speculation on what specific issues might have escalated the two Bondsmagi factions rivalry into this kind of violence?  What do you think the surviving Bondsmagi will do next, with all their gathered money and knowledge?

Since they aren’t using it anymore, I want to break into their library. I know I know, all the stuff “disappeared”, but something had to have been left behind.  Every tight knit group is going to have factions and disagreements, and even our history shows that’s the best ever reason to get into a bloodbath of a war.  The Bondsmagi disagree about how much magic can be used without awakening something they are afraid of.  I think they also disagree about the awakening itself. I’ll bet some of the bondsmagi *want* whatever it is to wake up, in hopes whatever it is could be a weapon they could hone and use.  It’s sort of the poke the zombie/don’t poke the zombie argument. If you poke it and wake it up, you can learn how to kill it. If you don’t poke it, it’ll never chase you, but you won’t know how to kill it should it creep up on you in the middle of the night.

That whole scene with Coldmarrow and Foresight, I suppose I should have guessed from the title of the section, but WOAH.  holy shit was that drastic!  Coldmarrow is a double agent, isn’t he?

Where will they go? I don’t know, but i sure hope we get to follow them.

5. Patience: Given the final revelation that Patience does hate Locke for what he did to the Falconer, what do you make of her behavior towards Locke throughout the book?  Do you think her plan of vengeance is well suited to Locke?  What do you make of the Black Amaranth story now, as well as the prophecy she threw on top? 

She hates him, she’s got no reason to tell him the truth, she has no reason to make his life at all simpler or easier. The woman is carrying a well deserved grudge. She did some shitty stuff to the Falconer all on her own, but it would have come to nothing if it wasn’t for Locke. And if Locke is who Patience says he is, who knows what other reasons she has for hating him!

There’s a conversation at the end of Lies of Locke Lamora, when Locke and Jean have escaped the glass burrow and are trying to figure out what to do next. They thought they’d won, until they realized that this is what “winning” and “revenge” feel like. it feels like ashes in your mouth because you’ve lost everything to get what you thought you wanted.  Patience makes reference to getting more revenge, which makes me thing she hates him for far more than what he did to her son.

If done right, there’s no end to the fun an author can have with prophecies, because words can have so many meanings.  A crown could be anything, it could even mean metal that hasn’t become a crown yet, or crown as in money.  Locke has already lost Bug, so he’s already lost a child, but of course she could be referencing something or someone else. And like a crown, a key could be anything.  But Silver Rain? my guess that’s directly connected to the Falconer’s um, new prosthetics.

and that’s the worst, that Locke will have to live the rest of his life unsure of this. Again, *knowing* is part of his modus operadi.  this is a guy who studies his marks, studies the layout of houses and cities. KNOWING is what his life and his career revolve around.  Now he’s got this huge unknowable hanging over him. It might be total bullshit.  or it might now.

The painting. I have to say something about the painting.  Ok, so Patience shows the painting to Sabetha, and then she wraps the painting back up for Locke to look at?  I was involved in a discussion about this scene, and someone mentioned “why did Patience take the 10 minutes to rewrap the painting? she could have just left it unwrapped and Locke would have seen it”, and my thought in response was that by rewrapping it, she gave Locke the choice to look or not. The guy needs some free will, right? If he’d never unwrapped the painting, he’d be confused, but it would have saved him a lot of pain.  Knowledge changes you, so damn right Locke is going to be someone else next time he talks to Sabetha, if he ever talks to her again.

6. The Epilogue: Speaking of vengeance, do you think the Falconer’s vengeance against his mother was merited or excessively cruel, given the circumstances?  On that note, how do you feel about the Falconer’s transformation and possible status as a continuing villain?

Excessively cruel. But completely merited.  He might not have had to spend three years in a coma if it wasn’t for her. I wish he hadn’t killed her though, would have been fun for her to show up again later. there are so many questions I want to ask her!!!

remember at the beginning of the read along, when Locke and Jean are on the ship with Patience, and she gives them the lowdown on their situation and offers to answer Locke’s questions? One of our read along discussion questions was “what would you ask Patience?” and many of us didn’t know what we would ask her. But now, now I have a million questions!

The Falconer’s transformation was pretty damn awesome. He’s gonna have to find some more dreamsteel, that’s for sure. The guy makes a great villain.  He’s full of hate, he’s been abandoned by the rest of the bondsmagi, most of the rest of his faction has been killed, he’s gone a little bit crazy. . . and how do you stab a guy whose body is covered in dreamsteel? (ok, he hasn’t made dreamsteel armour yet, but I suppose he could).  Where does dreamsteel come from? Is it an Eldren thing?  I’m so morbidly fascinated by the bondsmagi in general that I’m totally excited for him to be part of the story again.

7. Wrapping up:  Thus ends the third book in the Gentleman Bastard sequence.  How do you think it compares with the first two?  In the end, do you prefer the Espara storyline or the Karthain storyline, or did you like them both equally?

When I first reviewed this book, I mentioned that readers would find it quite different from the first two books, and shouldn’t be put off by that. Okay, so the style of the book is similar – lots of characterization done through flashbacks, a “now” storyline and a “back then” storyline, lots of fun insults and pranks and secrets.  The previous two books were fun romps, lots of “whats” and “where’s” and “how’s”.  Republic of Thieves struck me as more of a big picture type thing, and we’re finally getting some of the Whys.  Sure, the whats and wheres and hows are fun, but the whys, that’s where the meat is!

By a thin hair, I liked the Epsara story line better. I loved hanging out with the twins again, the sex scenes were hilarious, and I liked the supporting characters in that storyline better. It’s the symmetry that makes these story lines work so well together.  In both story lines,  the GB’s are thrown into a new city that they know nothing about, and told to succeed against all odds.  In both storylines, Locke and Sabethat have an opportunity to work on their relationship, and something goes horribly wrong.  In both storylines, the GB’s are left broke and friendless at the end.

Anyone else think Patience (and the other Bondsmagi involved in the election) just used Locke and Sabetha as rubes?

For a kid who swore to the gods that he’d never lose again, Locke sure loses a lot.  If there’s any truth behind what Patience said, maybe he can use it to start winning in his life.

About these ads

16 Responses to "Republic of Thieves. the end! . . . or is it?"

2. “I liked Locke and Sabetha’s interaction with Ezrintaim. Locke needs to know that he needs to be paying attention to the bigger picture.”
This seems like a bit of foreshadowing for the series as a whole. In each book they’ve been involved in major socio-political plots, but they don’t think about it that way.

3. I’m not particularly interested in politics either, but without it I thought the whole election just looked like an empty plot device. I thought it would be one big con (or two, Sabetha’s vs. Locke’s). But the only influential thing was the Lovaris trick.

4. “I’ll bet some of the bondsmagi *want* whatever it is to wake up, in hopes whatever it is could be a weapon they could hone and use.”
I want it to wake up too! :) But yeah, they also wanted to learn more about Lamor and reincarnation. And Patience seemed to think the young Falconer was too interested in those lights beneath the Amathel.

6. So excited about the Falconer! That was an epic awakening. OK, he might be a bit cliche as a mad supervillain, but I think Lynch could make something interesting out of it.

Like

I’ll be going around and properly commenting/discussing later tonight when I have more time to think everything over, but for now I have to say I’m kind of sad that it’s over!

We need to do this again. *Nod* Maybe with something sci-fi related? ;-) ;-)

Like

2. I want to see Moncraine return in a future book and see how the GB’s use him. I bet he’s squandered the money and is a wretch!

3. The Lovaris trick was a convenient way of allowing Locke and Jean to save face because Sabetha had the election all sewn up. To be honest I wasn’t all that interested in the politics either because the pranks were fun!

4. ELDREN, ELDREN, ELDREN! Perhaps there are Eldren super-weapons and this is a Prometheus type situation where the Bondsmagi are tampering with deadly knowledge that wiped out their forbears. That spooky bridge, the stuff in the water. Dagon, Cthulhu, the whole lot!
Props to Coldmarrow for taking the course of action he did!

6. Falconer looks nigh-on-invincible! How is Locke going to defeat him?

Like

Haha, I just mentioned that the Falconer now seems invincible! Jinx padlock!
Lynn :D

Like

Is there anyway people can talk to the dead and get his True Name from Patience? Not sure how else they are going to be able to deal with him! :)

Like

1. – Poor Donker (who I keep thinking is called ‘Donkey’)
2. I love that point that they end up with no money at the end of every story. That hadn’t occurred to me and yet it’s spot on. Love it!
3. Yep, not interested in the politics overly – I liked what Locke came up with as his final scheme – even if it would only work in one instance! How crafty of him to have a ‘get out of jail’ card up his sleeve!
4. I think you’re onto something with the way the Magi are split – it could be even that they disagree about the idead that using too much power attracts the wrong type of attention. It’s very mysterious.
5. I think Patience also hated Locke because he didn’t kill the Falconer and get rid of her problem – nobody would ever have suspected her hand in it – but no, Locke just maimed him and sent him home. The prophecies are great aren’t they – they could be anything – perhaps Sabetha is pregnant. Maybe the crown refers to a coin, the key, could just simply be, mmm, a key! Who knows.
I love that the Falconer is back in the game. He’s a great baddie, and I love a good baddie, a bit like Iuda?? There’s no possibility that you’re ever going to have any sympathy for him is there. Plus there’s a little bit of an invincibility type thing about him now!
7. I love all three books but for totally different reasons. The Espara scheme just pipped the post for me – because of the tension I think.
So, what was the whole ‘red haired’ woman in the picture all about then?
Lynn :D

Like

2. They do keep playing with things that have larger consequences, without thinking about it. That was even Locke’s comment on the possible Marrows civil war, “We even used that in a con once.” I’m getting the feeling that they’ll be forced to consider a wider picture very soon.

4. I like your thoughts here. I hope the Falconer pokes whatever it is, so that we can see it soon! He isn’t exactly being circumspect with his power, after all :).

5. You know, I think she did mention something about him “atoning for his crimes” as Lamor Acanthus at some point. If it is true (or if she believes it’s true), then maybe their relationship was more complicated than I had thought. I’m on the side of ‘she has no reason to tell him the truth’ right now, though. I like that the prophecy is simple enough and vague enough that I’ll be able to remember it through future novels. I was thinking dreamsteel with the silver rain, as well. Unless maybe it is a reference to the Eldren-killer, and we just don’t know yet!?

7. I saw this as kind of a launching book. There were a lot of things that weren’t tied up, but it seems like it’s getting the stage ready to jump right into some epic events in the next few books. It wasn’t my favorite of the three, but I really like the big-picture turn that it looks like the series is starting to take.

Like

The whole book I thought Coldmarrow was working for the opposite faction and then it turns out he’s basically Patience’s double-agent. Didn’t see that coming…

Dreamsteel armour?! Oh hell! He was scary enough before that…

Like

[…] of the Lynch Mob had to say Tethyan Books Over the Effing Rainbow Lynn’s Books Genki na Hito Little Red Reveiwer Dab of Darkness Theft and Sorcery Coffee, Cookies and Chili Peppers Joma’s […]

Like

“I do like it sometimes when characters make plans but don’t tell the reader what those plans are, it’s the “he whispered his plan into their ear” scene.”

Classic writer’s trick. =) Either you reveal the plan and something goes wrong, or if you want it to go right then you don’t reveal the plan. Otherwise you end up telling the same thing twice. The true skill is in the execution, of course, and Lynch is a master!

Like

i like it when writers trick me like that, when they can pull it off. Cuz I feel like it’s the characters who are keeping a secret, not the writer. One of my favorite writers got me hooked on that trick, because he does it so well. sometimes he’ll have the character tell the reader “That’s too personal, I’m not going to tell you about that”.

Like

Yep, Donkers got to spend an evening next to corpse. Sucks for him. And if you have payed attention at all the crime TV, you know corpses don’t stay fresh and solid for long….

When they were prepping the bath scene, it was terribly cute having Locke trying to act like he was staring at her breasts and Sabetha trying to act like she wasn’t encouraging it.

Poke the zombie/don’t poke the zombie – Ha!

If Locke interprets the prophesy to mean he will lose a child – he may choose to not procreate. But, I am not particularly worried about that as he seems to be able to sleep with only one person and she has left his life again.

Maybe Patience was lying about showing the picture to Sabetha and Sabetha had already left for her own reasons, or Patience forced Sabetha to leave through some prior agreement or threatening Locke’s or Jean’s life.

Like

I never thought about the fact that Patience wrapped the painting back up again, to give Locke that choice. Which could perhaps get to him more because he chose to look? Also the picture doesn’t prove the story is true either. I just don’t know whether to believe it or not, I mean from Patience’s POV it would be funnier if it was true, but who knows. And we’ve only heard it from her and briefly from Coldmarrow, who was working for Patience so we can’t trust him either! >_<

I really liked Patience, cold and ruthless, but also caring about her people (and the world to a point – made me think a little of Magneto) it made her really interesting, But now, with the Falconer back on his feet? That is rather terrifying.

My post is here :)

http://manyatruenerd.com/2013/11/26/the-republic-of-thieves-read-along-part-5/

Like

join the conversation

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

2014 Hugo Awards

I reviewed some Hugo nominated stuff. Click here for the list.

Follow me on Twitter!

Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email.

Join 1,234 other followers

subscribe in a reader

Vintage SF

Categories

FTC Stuff

some of the books reviewed here were free ARCs supplied by publishers/authors/other groups. Some of the books here I got from the library. the rest I *gasp!* actually paid for. I'll do my best to let you know what's what.
%d bloggers like this: